Quizá y tal vez sin subjuntivo

[Robie]

Estaba leyendo la revista National Geographic en español sobre el tema de los mayas. Hay unas oracions que no entiendo por qué no usó la forma subjuntiva.

"Quizá los primeros pobladores que llegaron no tuvieron opción: tal vez el hacinamiento en otros lugares los obligó a adentrarse en este ambiente amenazador...."

Pensaba que hay una regla estricta que nos obliga usar el subjuntivo cada vez (sin excepciones) con tal vez y quizas.

[johnr]

B&B dice ..

Tal vez, quizá y acaso all mean 'perhaps'. With all these words, when the event referred to is happening in he past, use of the subjunctive is optional. The subj. makes the possibility rather weaker.

If the event is still in the future, the present sub. or, much less comonly, the future ind. is used , but not the present indicative.

Use of the ind. is increasingly usual, but it may still sound incorrect to some older speakers.

Note: a lo mejor does not take the subj

[johnr]

links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0018-2133%28197705%2960%3A2%3C332%3ANOTFO%22%3E2.0.CO%3B2-N&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage

[johnr]

Words meaning “perhaps” (tal vez, quizá, and quizás) may be followed by the subjunctive to suggest that the action or state is improbable, or doubtful; they may also be followed by the indicative to stress a greater degree of likelihood or probability. [Note: The expression for “perhaps” has no effect on the verb if it comes after the verb.]

Quizás participamos en la fiesta. Perhaps we'll take part in the festival. [Indic.: probable]
Quizás participemos en la fiesta. Perhaps we'll take part in the festival. [Subj.: doubtful]

[sendai]

Pensaba que hay una regla estricta que nos obliga usar el subjuntivo cada vez (sin excepciones) con tal vez y quizas.

Para nada. Se puede usar el indicativo también. Gramaticalmente, los dos están perfectamente bien.

Here's what I think is the most common usage. It's also the way I speak:

Past: indicative (ex: Maybe she already left)
Future: subjunctive (ex: Perhaps he'll tell us what happened
Present: both (ex: Maybe she's at her dad's.)

Note that the subjunctive with the past and the indicative with the future are still possible, just less common. However, I rarely see the indicative with future sentences, so I wouldn't recommend that.

With the present, you hear both. I think the subjunctive is more common, but I can't say for sure. The present tense is a good time to apply the rule of subjunctive for more doubt, indicative for less doubt. In the end it doesn't matter much, though, because what I perceive as a lot of doubt will be little doubt to the next guy, so the usage ends up being pretty random in the present.

If you follow the guide above, I'm pretty sure no one will think you sound strange when you talk.

[Noelia]

You're right...... and I think it's becasue we don't respect the strict rules of grammar when we speak....because now I think about it, I'd perfectly say:

- Quizas mañana vaya a la fiesta

but also

- Quizas voy a ir a la fiesta

Although the first one is much more common, I know I would say that in a conversation, so as a teacher I would correct a non-native but when speaking with other natives it would be very normal.


So, I guess is one of those things you cant do with a foreign language even if natives do, because being this your 2nd language they will always think you don't know the correct form.

It happened to me thousands of times with English, I gave up trying!

[sendai]

So, I guess is one of those things you cant do with a foreign language even if natives do, because being this your 2nd language they will always think you don't know the correct form.

This is very true. There are some things we non-natives just can't get away with. I've been "corrected" many times for things that I know people say a lot.

By the way, when I get corrected like that, I've learned that the right thing to do is to accept the correction and not argue. No one wants a foreigner telling them how to speak their own language!