V vs. PH,F

[Noelia]

I still have problems with this sound. It confuses me...

Sometimes, they sound exactlyl the same, so could you please answer these questions for me,?

1) Do you pronounce "have" and "haf" the same way?
2) Do you pronounce "elephant" and "elevant" the same way?

I read something long ago about F, V and PH sharing the same phoneme but not the same grapheme, whatever that means... but I understood that, although they are different the sound is the same.

And that could explain also why "Steven" and "Stephen" sound the same although they are written differently...

What do you think?

[Robie]

I do not pronounce the V and the PH/F the same at all. I'm experimenting with the sounds and to me when I say 'have' vs. 'haf' or even 'half' (in case you wanted a real word that fits this scenario), it seems like my mouth, lips, etc are exactly the same but the thing that's different is that when I prounounce the 'f' it's got more force behind it. I can feel that I hold back a little bit of air and then let it sort of explode when I pronounce half or elephant. But when I pronounce have or elevant or elevator there's no force at all behind the 'v' sound.

You are going to love it here. On the other side of the highway near my house, there's a suburb named Pflugerville. The P is silent so it's pronounced as Flugerville. The fun part is that it seems like everyone tries to find a way to include the Pf into normal words. For example, my friend Bart has a container in his house that he has labeled with the words "Brake Pfluid".

Ok, now you know my secrets of pronunciation. Let's see what Paul and John say.

[Noelia]

Gracias Robie

Es que ayer cuando hablábamos en paltalk con el hombre de Arabia, yo le dije:

"Are you married? And if so, how many wives do you HAVE?

Y cuando terminé de pronunciar "have" me dí cuenta que sonó como "haf"

[sendai]

V and PH/F are in general distinct sounds in English. The mouth position is identical, as Robie said, but the V is voiced and the PH/F is unvoiced. That is the only difference. It's the same difference that you find in these pairs: B/P D/T G/K Z/S THough/THrough

Steven and Stephen are nearly always pronounced the same (with the V sound). Another less common name, Stephan, is generally pronounced with the F.

That said, sometimes we pronounce the V as an F or vice versa. For example:

1. "of" is pronounced "uv"

2. "I have to go" (hav when speaking slowly, but haf when talking rapidly: I hafta go)
This happens because the T that follows "have" is unvoiced, and it's easy to say VD and FT but VT is more difficult.

3. Some people pronounce "halves" as "hafs" and not "havz".

phoneme = the sound
grapheme = the symbol (letter)

PH and F are the same phoneme but use a different grapheme.

[Noelia]

So let me see if I understand this.....

The difference between V and PH/F is making some kind of noise with your vocal chords when you pronounce V and not doing it when you want to say F right? Although the mouth position is the same. Believe it or not, this is hard, we're not used to generate any sound when we pronounce F

Also, if the letter following the V is unvoiced, you can pronounce F

- your "hafta" example

But, if it is voiced, you have to make the sound

- Have a great day (not hafa great day)


How about when nothing else comes after it...like my question to the guy from arabia:

- how many wives do you have?

[sendai]

Have: We nearly always say it with the V sound. It's possible to say it with the F in some cases, but it nothing comes after it we say V. Same with "have a great day" and "have done it" -- the V sound. So the Arabian guy said it wrong.

Right, the difference is that with V you need to vibrate your vocal cords. I know it's hard because many Spanish speakers have trouble with that sound, for the same reason that they have trouble with the Z sound (les sale una S y no una Z).

van/fan
fail/veil
file/vile
focal/vocal
food/voodoo

[Noelia]

Es impresionante la poca gama de sonidos que tenemos en español! Nunca lo había notado con francés pero ahora con inglés la diferencia es tan obvia...